Simplicity Sidings

For discussion of the issues faced when building a model or layout - how to replicate wood, what glues to use, exactly how much weathering can a Gnat take, a good source of detailing accessories - you get the picture, I'm sure.

Moderator: GnATTERbox Moderators

User avatar
Korschtal
GnatterBox Centurion
GnatterBox Centurion
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Interests: Modern image and industrial narrow gauge, German narrow gauge, especially the island lines.

Postby Korschtal » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:21 am

I was wondering where the updates were, and then realised I'd been logged off... Suddenly there's 6 pages to read. Worth the 'time lost' from work though.

One question: Couldn't the method for making walls with the tray and the laminated insert be used as well for a baseboard.

Not that I'm quietly thinking of making an Gn15 model you understand: a purely hypothetical question...
Andy in Stuttgart
More railway misadventures on:
www.korschtal.wordpress.com

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Postby Steve Bennett » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:16 am

Korschtal wrote:One question: Couldn't the method for making walls with the tray and the laminated insert be used as well for a baseboard.


Yes, no reason that type of construction couldnt be used for a baseboard, just need to take care with moisture, as with anything made with card.
Steve Bennett
Sidelines
http://www.pepper7.com

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Paving

Postby Steve Bennett » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:26 pm

PAVING

A bit later than intended, but time for the next stage of this build. I did get a bit involved with trying a new idea (to me anyway) and wanted to explore that before writing this section. That will be covered later, first a couple of simple methods of representing paved areas, which are probably better suited to a project like this.

METHOD 1
Starting with the simplest way, this is really a continuation of how the buildings and walls were done. That is to use a print from the computer, glued to card and layed into position. It just so happens that Franck posted a link to a texture site earlier in this thread, that proved ideal and his timing couldnt have been better (http://www.cgtextures.com/).

Going to the site, downloading a suitable texture then sizing and printing was very straight forward. The pieces of paving were then cut to size and glued to pieces of card. Here are the results.

Image

Although I had no intention of using this method, it certainly has it's merits. Being done the same way as the buildings and walls, they do fit together very well visually, something that is not so easy to acheive with more 3D methods. To go directly to the image I used here, click the LINK , hopefully it works. To resize, I loaded the picture into MS Word (sorry MAC users, you will have to find another way :) ), then formatted the image size to 20cm long, slightly longer than I needed, then printed onto a matt photopaper, with the printer set to landscape format. You may need to fiddle around with the sizing a bit, to get what you want, I included the dimension as an example only. Then it was cut to size and glued to card. If I was using this method, I would have used some more card under it to raise it up, I will cover that a bit more in the next section.
Steve Bennett

Sidelines

http://www.pepper7.com

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Paving continued

Postby Steve Bennett » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:22 pm

METHOD 2

This method gives a more 3D effect for stone/concrete paving and again is very simple to acheive. The material I am using here is the same 2mm thick card I have been using through this build. When I bought this card, it was labeled as "Construction Card" but I would guess it has different names in other places. From the card I cut it into individual slabs, flags, pavers or whatever they are called where you are :roll: . I decided to use a scale 24" by 18" which is pretty common around here and it is easy to mark out and cut at 1" by ¾". Very simple using a straight edge and engineers square, like so.

Image

Very quickly you have a nice pile of useable pieces, like so.

Image

Now you could use them just as they are, from cutting with a knife, they will have a slight taper on the cut edges, which will give a slight gap when they are put against each other. I like to go a stage further though and taking a fine file, slightly round off the top edges. This does create a bit of dust (you have been warned :wink: ) but I feel worth the effort, it also gets rid of any raised edges from the cutting process. Hopefully this photo will show the difference, the 3 in the front have had the top edge cleaned up, those behind not.

Image

Once you place several together, I think you will be surprised at how good the effect is. They can be used as they are, or if you are good with a paintbrush, washes of watercolour or dilute acrylics can bring them further to life.

By arranging them loose on the layout, I then worked out the pattern in which they would be laid. Once the positions were decided, a thin piece of card, slightly smaller than the area they were to cover was cut, to which they were glued into place. The reason for card to which they are stuck being slightly smaller, is so that it wont be visable on the layout. Once done, thoughts can then turn to laying a foundation for them on the layout.

It may be that sticking them directly to the base would suit, but I wanted to raise them, so the top surface would be level with the top of the rail. To do this more card was used. For me, 2 layers of 1mm thick card, plus the piece they were already glued to, worked out just right. the pieces of card were cut to size, again, slightly smaller than the paved are, then glued onto the layout base. This photo shows the packing/foundations in place.

Image

Now it is upto you, the paving could be stuck into place now, or it is probably better, to leave them until after the track is ballasted, as due to them being made of card, they could be damaged if too much moisture from the ballasting process gets into them. This shot show them in position, but not glued down (ignore the strip on the right, they are part of method 3 :wink: ).

Image

I hope this shows how effective plain old card can be. If you want to take this a stage further though, method 3 beckons, where these pieces of card get a bit more treatment.
Steve Bennett

Sidelines

http://www.pepper7.com

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Postby gfadvance » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:18 pm

:) Thanks Steve, would not have thought of sanding the card - wondered how you got that slightly worn look on the pictures you posted a few days ago.
No pressure :twisted: but looking forward to how you are going to ballast track. :lol:

:?: the "dust" sorry can't remember how you spell it can you glue it using the eye dropper/ dilute glue method
Gordon F

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Paving continued again

Postby Steve Bennett » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:09 pm

METHOD 3

Now this is really a continuation of method 2, taking things a little further and although still a very simple process, a bit beyond what I intended for this project :roll: .

First of all the ingredients.

Image

Top left, diluted black poster paint
Top centre, diluted raw umber poster paint.
Bottom left, a mix of powdered polyfilla/spackle (?) with white glue(PVA), water and diluted paint from above.
Bottom centre, plain water for rinsing brush.

Image

Hopefully, this will give an idea of roughly how much filler and PVA went into the mix. The mix is made up and diluted to about the consistancy of milk. You will find that the plaster will sink to the bottom, so each time you dip your brush, give it a stir. I used a cheap number 4 brush for this. You could substitute acrylic or water colour paint here, but the beauty of poster paint is that it is opaque, rather than transparent, plus it is completely matt, unlike acrylic, which does have a sheen to it.

Apply the mix to the precut paving, rather than brush it on though, with the brush well loaded with the mix, dab it on over the surface. Hopefully it will form a bit of a puddle on top, this wont last long though, the card will quickly absorb the water, leaving an uneven layer of plaster on the surface. This doesnt really show it that well, the 2 on the left have had the mix applied and the water soaked in, the third is still loaded with water, while the one on the right, shows the finished piece after drying for a couple of hours, notice how much lighter it is.

Image

By varying the amount of paint in the mix, you can get subtle variations in the final colour. I found that adding more paint to the mix as I went along, gave progressivly darker shades, giving a nice effect when they are arranged randomly. Of course using a different colour can also give even more variety. Here is a pic I showed earlier in the thread showing the variety just using different amounts of black and raw umber.

Image

In some settings, this may be as far as you want to go, but we all like dirty dont we :) . It doesnt come much more basic than this for weathering though, a very thin wash of the black paint is all that is required. Before applying the paint though, brush clean water onto the surface, then quickly, before the water soaks in, apply the wash of black. Here is the process in picture form.

Image

The top left two, are just the plaster coating, top right has had the water brushed on, then bottom left, the black wash applied, while the two at bottom right are after drying out again.

Once all the pieces have dried out, time to get them ready for the layout. Like in the previous section on method 2, the individual pieces are stuck to a card sub-base. Here are the finished pieces, ready to be used on the layout.

Image

And finally, just placed into position for now.

Image

I'm hoping this hasnt sounded too complex, it really isnt. It will require a little experimentation to get the mixes of paint right, but it is also difficult to mess up. Now that I have played with this method, I see it getting used a lot in the future.
Steve Bennett

Sidelines

http://www.pepper7.com

User avatar
Nick Ellingworth
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 515
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:03 pm
Location: Gnorfolk
Interests: Many things

Postby Nick Ellingworth » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:20 pm

Excellent post Steve it's something I'll have to try once I find a use for it. :D
*Insert witty signature here*

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Postby Steve Bennett » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:22 pm

gfadvance wrote: :?: the "dust" sorry can't remember how you spell it can you glue it using the eye dropper/ dilute glue method


Yes, thats the way I normally glue it (chinchilla dust), you will though need a wetting agent, more so than with a stone ballast, due to it's light weight. Windshield washer fluid is far superior for this than washing up liquid, it penetrates a lot easier. A very fine mist sprayer will also be handy, with plain water and a bit of wetting agent added. Try a test first, to get a feel for it, though, the difference from using stone ballast is minimal.
Steve Bennett

Sidelines

http://www.pepper7.com

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Postby gfadvance » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:26 pm

Thats superb Steve,

very ,very impressed with the black washed examples they really do look like concrete slabs - just right for my path through the muck and the puddles :D

Will be trying these over the week end!!
Gordon F

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Postby Steve Bennett » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:16 pm

Thanks Gordon, glad you approve and hope that it helps with your little project, let us know how you get on.

I must admit to being really pleased with the results, though it did take a bit of time to perfect. The key was the small amount of PVA in the plaster mix, it transformed the way it worked. It's funny, looking at the overhead shot on the white background of the completed pieces, I keep thinking it looks like they are printed, maybe I should have stayed with the printed versions :lol: would have been a lot quicker :) .
Steve Bennett

Sidelines

http://www.pepper7.com

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Postby Steve Bennett » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:19 pm

Nick Ellingworth wrote:Excellent post Steve it's something I'll have to try once I find a use for it. :D


Thanks Nick. How about a few slabs as a wagon load on your G12 wagons, thats what I'm going to do with some of the leftovers :wink: .
Steve Bennett

Sidelines

http://www.pepper7.com

User avatar
Nick Ellingworth
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 515
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:03 pm
Location: Gnorfolk
Interests: Many things

Postby Nick Ellingworth » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:29 pm

A definite possibility the small flat wagon would definitely suit carrying slabs, thanks for the idea Steve.
*Insert witty signature here*

User avatar
dwh
'boxer
'boxer
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:32 pm
Location: Chilbolton
Interests: NG modelling, caravaning, cooking

Postby dwh » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:54 pm

What an insperational introduction to Gn15. Today the postie delivered what I thought was a Gnat loco brought from 009 societies members sales stand, but it wasnt quite what I was expecting, but a quick measure up and the size seems about right. That kick started the process a small order to Steve for a couple of wagons, then down to brass tacks and made up the the base board?. So once again Steve thanks for showing this novice the way.
Derek
If you dont go out in the dark how will you see the stars ???
I went in the dark and was seduced by Gn15

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Postby gfadvance » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:45 pm

Just an update on where I am up to


Image Image


Basics of building completed, roof needs weathered but will leave that until I can work in daylight. Steve's Slabs will go in front of the door and then between the tracks out to the gate as well as at right angles out to the front of layout. This will mean I will need to to put some planks so that that people can cross the tracks.

So tomorrow hopefully I will get a chance to try out the slab technique - and while they are drying maybe I can get some gates built.
Gordon F

dr5euss
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:54 pm

Postby dr5euss » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:04 pm

That's looking really go, Gordon. What's the roof made from, and how?

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Postby Steve Bennett » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:35 pm

gfadvance wrote:Just an update on where I am up to


Damn, I hate you sometimes Gordon :lol: Thats looking terrific. I really like the style of that building. It has a kind of cartoon or fairy tale type of quality to it and just has loads of character.

Think I'm going to throw mine in the bin and start again :D
Steve Bennett

Sidelines

http://www.pepper7.com

SOUTHPASS
Seasoned Campaigner
Seasoned Campaigner
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:02 am
Location: Bribie Island
Interests: Trains and cars.

Postby SOUTHPASS » Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:35 am

G,day....I wish you guys would go on holiday or find another hobby. I'm trying to get my 7 1/4" loco done and you keep distracting me with this stuff :D . But as this is the 3rd go in 12 years to do this engine, I have promised myself that it is now or never to get it finished :shock: .
Great ideas all round. Steve, you mention wetting agent for the ballast. I have found a nasal spray that was used for applying medication gives a very fine and light spray, removed pickup tube and you can hold it upside down over the work and there is no disturbance of the material :) .
.....WARNING....
Contains images that anoraks may find disturbing.
1:24 scale 16.5mm gauge.
Yes I know it's all old and rusty, but I just model things as I see them......
Have a good one....John B.

User avatar
andrew milner
Seasoned Campaigner
Seasoned Campaigner
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:49 pm
Location: The Midlands, England
Interests: Modelling, painting, photography

Postby andrew milner » Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:51 am

Nasal Spray! Great idea, I've been looking for a fine sprayer. I bought a Woodlands scenics one as I thought it would be made for the job but it's far too heavy a spray. Thanks for the inspiration Steve, Gordon et all, great modelling and instructions too!
Andrew Milner, still trying to figure it out....

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Postby gfadvance » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:48 am

Steve Bennett wrote: It has a kind of cartoon or fairy tale type of quality to it and just has loads of character.


:lol: oh well so much for trying to get a realistic look :lol: and I seem to remember the estate agent saying "its got loads of character" when we bought this house

Steve Bennett wrote: Think I'm going to throw mine in the bin and start again :D



I don't think you should do that - apart from how good it looks , "its doing exactly what it said on the tin" and anyway there would be a large number of people round at your place rummaging through your bins :lol:


The roof is made from of beer cans (empty) :!:
Gordon F

User avatar
Bob Taylor
Seasoned Campaigner
Seasoned Campaigner
Posts: 421
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:33 pm
Location: Black Country, UK - NOT Birmingham!
Interests: GN15!, Zak and Travis my Border Collies, Steam Rallies and Canals.

Postby Bob Taylor » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:51 am

Also picking up lots of tips and inspiration. Both of which can't be a bad thing. :wink:

Experimented with the "track painting" idea. Not 100% sure about the result but still not bad. Will try again. Definite possibilities.

Keep this up and I might end up with a layout after all! :D



Bob.
maybach52.taylor@googlemail.com.

Gn15: Remember SIZE does matter! and may all your gauges be little ones.

Gnine: Narrow your horizons!

User avatar
Colin Peake
Seasoned Campaigner
Seasoned Campaigner
Posts: 479
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:34 pm
Location: Nottinghamshire, UK

Postby Colin Peake » Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:11 am

Great slabs Steve, another technique to take note of!

Some spesdy progress from Gordon too, I can see me having to crack on with Ambasador's this morning once I'm up and running.... :roll:

Colin
Colin Peake
http://o9modeller.blogspot.com/ - Modelling miniature railways in 7mm scale

User avatar
Bilco
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 1034
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:55 pm
Location: Woodstock, Oxfordshire
Interests: 7mm & 16mm NG, Gn15

Simplicity Sidings

Postby Bilco » Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:11 am

I love your little building Gordon - is that the 'cludgie i' the yard'? :P

The asbestos roofing is especially effective - I guess that the aluminium foil from baking trays would work too. Did you make an embossing jig to get the shape?
Bill

If at first you don't succeed, cheat.
Too soon old, too late smart.

https://sites.google.com/site/myoldlayouts/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/149926300@N07/albums

User avatar
Simon Andrews
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:48 pm
Location: Calne, Wiltshire, England.
Interests: narrow gauge modelling, 009, 09.

Postby Simon Andrews » Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:59 am

I too think the building looks great Gordon. I don't think that Steve's observation is in any way negative, micros by their very nature tend to be "a caricature" and "in the style of". your building looks right at home in its setting.

Simon.
Image

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Postby gfadvance » Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:12 pm

:oops: sorry if I gave the impression that I was taking offence - no way, more like taking the mickey out of myself.
I really enjoy modelling in this scale/guage/forum just because its not to serious and not too heavy on the scale accuracy more along the lines that it looks right.

Anyway moving on found some card - on the back of a pad of water color paper, so slabs are cut and will be treated shortly.

Roof on "cludgie" has been taken off as this morning when I looked at it it just didn't seem right -so that will be modified and tried again later. - i'll post some pictures of how it was made/remade later on
Gordon F

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Postby Steve Bennett » Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:34 pm

gfadvance wrote::oops: sorry if I gave the impression that I was taking offence - no way, more like taking the mickey out of myself.
I really enjoy modelling in this scale/guage/forum just because its not to serious and not too heavy on the scale accuracy more along the lines that it looks right.


No, nothing negative going on here, more like mutual respect for what this thread is acheiving, with a bit of fun along the way :wink:

Anyway moving on found some card - on the back of a pad of water color paper, so slabs are cut and will be treated shortly.


That should work fine, maybe a little thinner, but that shouldnt matter at all. I would imagine in your setting the slabs will be more set into the ground anyway. If you are going to be using a diluted glue to set the surface around them, it would be worth sealing the underside before glueing them down to stop them sucking up too much moisture.
Steve Bennett

Sidelines

http://www.pepper7.com


Return to “Modelling Matters”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron