Air Loco .........The End

For discussion of the issues faced when building a model or layout - how to replicate wood, what glues to use, exactly how much weathering can a Gnat take, a good source of detailing accessories - you get the picture, I'm sure.

Moderator: GnATTERbox Moderators

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Air Loco .........The End

Postby gfadvance » Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:51 am

You all probably guessed that I am having one of my "bursts of modelling " - so while the gods are with me a little progress piece on my latest project.

All started about 7 days ago when I saw this

http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=5470

Thanks Forrest , you always come up with interesting stuff.

Which led to this

Image

which led to this Image

These were made from wood dowel and bits and pieces, the small nuts at the front came from some Hornby wagons ( seemed to remember they held the body to the chassis and I kept them - just in case.............

And yes I did try the lateral thinking process, vic vapour tubes weren't big enough, some plastic bombs and drop tanks in the bits box were just about right but there was never enough to make the 5 cylinders I needed :x
Turning 5 cylinders in my Black & Decker all to the same size with same radiused ends was an interesting learning experience.

This is where we have got up to now

Image Image

Although having taken the photo's realised that I had done it again :(

I'm always thinking that when I read of people doing mock-ups in cardboard before final construction - that's a good idea must do that in future.
do I , not a chance..............

So you see looked at these pictures and realised that the dimensions of this (not very scale model) didn't look right .

So nearly finished with new chassis - the bit that sits on top of the "spud" happier with it now

Image Image

If you look at the original photo you will note the different sized wheels - I did take the spud apart to see if I could change the wheels - but then realised would need to alter axle centres , gear ratios, etc ........ so just put it all back together again, maybe another time :lol:


Will be working on drivers compartment later so will post progress shots when progress happens
Last edited by gfadvance on Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Gordon F

User avatar
More_Cats_Than_Sense
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 1252
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:10 am
Location: Suffolk, UK
Interests: Railways, Cats, Computers, Beer

Postby More_Cats_Than_Sense » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:12 pm

That looks terrific Gordon :D :D
Barry Weston

If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer.

The only thing that keeps me sane, is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes....

Never knowingly sensible!

User avatar
dieselwater
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 1021
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:19 pm
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Interests: Model railways, painting, guitar

Postby dieselwater » Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:54 pm

Looking really good Gordon 8) I like the proportions of the tanks and the plate on the end.

To be honset, I'm not one for mocking up either :roll: I'm not one for detailed drawing either. I kind of make things on the fly, maybe after a few quick sketches and looking at the odd pic of the prototype. This of course does have its many probs :( But until I'm actually working in 3D it's hard to know how to make things work sometimes... well that's me anyway :oops: :roll:
Little old lines to somewhere.

David.

User avatar
Little Andi.
GnatterBox Centurion
GnatterBox Centurion
Posts: 348
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 3:27 pm
Location: Leic's East-Mid's - UK.
Interests: Interested in Narrow gauge modelling within a dioramic context.

Postby Little Andi. » Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:05 pm

Crikey............. that looks pretty ambitious Gordon, but then of course having seen your previous projects I'm sure - in fact it's already apparent, you have a good handle on it.
Lot's of fiddly twiddly bit's - always sucker me in they do. I'm certain this is going to look great, and you're off to a fine start.

Andi.
KBO .......................... Andi.

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:02 pm

Looks like a good start Gordon.
Lots of fiddly bits to make to get it to look convincing, the kind of detailing you will enjoy. Will look forward to seeing it progress.
Steve Bennett
Sidelines
http://www.pepper7.com

User avatar
Dallas_M
GnatterBox Centurion
GnatterBox Centurion
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:52 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland (USA)
Interests: Funky narrow gauge equipment!

Postby Dallas_M » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:56 pm

Well, I know my mind is at least a little warped ... that's sort of a given ... :roll:

That combined with the color of primer on the air cylinders causes me to see a variation of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wienermobile

Fortunately, I was able to follow the link back to Forrest's original post and "get back on track" :lol: .... and it looks like you are on track! Have to say that I'm one who does favor mock-ups along the way to check things before too much construction is done .... but that doesn't always spare the need (or desire!) to make modifications along the way.

One suggestion along those lines ... have you propped up a figure in a proposed seating position to check things? Great job of jumping on the prototype inspiration, btw ... looks like a great project. :wink:
Cheers,
Dallas

Dallas Mallerich
Boulder Valley Models
www.bouldervalleymodels.com

User avatar
dieselwater
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 1021
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:19 pm
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Interests: Model railways, painting, guitar

Postby dieselwater » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:04 pm

I was wondering the same as Dallas about the figure. I'm looking forward to seeing how it all works out. again, great stuff Gordon :D
Little old lines to somewhere.

David.

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Postby gfadvance » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:52 pm

Thanks folks

Detail, details - this is meant to be a little fun project to while away the time till my latest order from Steve arrives - however will add some pipes, valves and things to make it look better.
Have to be honest while I love the look of the prototype - its the driver that really caught my attention. Will be trying really hard to get him right, complete with hat, etc.

In my mind I can see a pipe in his mouth and his tie ( he is wearing a suit) being blown over his shoulder.

Haven't managed to get driving compartment. sorted out yet - been working on how to hold the air cylinders but here is a picture with standing figure to give you an idea of scale.

Image
Gordon F

User avatar
Willow Creek Traction
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 923
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:14 am
Location: Boonville, Missouri, USA
Interests: HO, On30, G/Hn15, regular G, kites, model rockets, the occasional model boat, retro sci-fi miniatures game.

Postby Willow Creek Traction » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:09 pm

She's looking great 8)

Flattered, and bashful, to have been the instigator of this project :oops: :lol:
(and a bit proud of my myself)

A bit of genius on making air tanks from dowel.
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

User avatar
michael
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 1851
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:10 pm
Location: Alberta Canada
Interests: Gn15

Postby michael » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:37 am

Excellent :!: :!: Gordon. I am looking forward to seeing how you finnish this one. The pipe smoking bit ought to ellicit a comment from Prof Klyzlr :twisted:
Regards Michael
If you believe you can make something, you can make it.

http://users.xplornet.com/~macton/index.html

Imagineering
True GnATTERbox
True GnATTERbox
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:39 am
Location: Wellington, Gnu Zealand
Interests: On30, Gn15, HO, N & T

Postby Imagineering » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:06 am

Has anyone any idea how this was driven? I am assuming 'Steam' Cylinders & inside Valve Gear, but it isn't obvious from this one photograph. If it were Cylinder Driven, my guess is that the larger wheels are the only ones driven, making this a 2-2-0. I'd love to model it 1:2 and guage it for our 7.25" local Model Engineering Track. I also have grave reservations as to running time between Fill-ups.
Murray McKenzie

Modelling 1/2 Scale Gn15

"Every day I count wasted, in which there have been no trains". -- Nietzsche, (almost)

User avatar
Willow Creek Traction
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 923
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:14 am
Location: Boonville, Missouri, USA
Interests: HO, On30, G/Hn15, regular G, kites, model rockets, the occasional model boat, retro sci-fi miniatures game.

Postby Willow Creek Traction » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:53 am

Some air locos had motor much like air compressor in reverse but I think you are correct in the inside cylinders assumption for the following reasons:
1. larger wheel has cast in counterweight as would be necessary with cylinder and rod driven steamer.
2. cutout above and ahead of smaller forward wheel reveals cylindrical object seat at an angle which appears to line its axis up with aft axle.

New mystery to consider :arrow:
:?: look at bottom edge of side under driver where that 'bolt head' is.
I would wager that what it connects to, given arc of light and shadow below side sheet directly under 'bolt head', is some sort of "bumper wheel" to keep loco from tipping back enough to raise front wheel flanges clear of rails thus causing derailment.
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

Imagineering
True GnATTERbox
True GnATTERbox
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:39 am
Location: Wellington, Gnu Zealand
Interests: On30, Gn15, HO, N & T

Postby Imagineering » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:35 am

I've just blown the photo up & enhanced it with Photoshop and it appears there is a 'Flanged' Wheel under his butt. It looks to be only about 200mm (8") in diameter.
Murray McKenzie



Modelling 1/2 Scale Gn15



"Every day I count wasted, in which there have been no trains". -- Nietzsche, (almost)

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Postby gfadvance » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:59 pm

:) :)

Don't know whither to thank you guys or not!

Had noticed the circular marking on the bottom of the drivers compartment but had not thought about it as an axle holding some form of "anti-tipping device.

Looks like I'm going to have to model it now after all the trouble you have gone to - that noise you hear is the first version, before this discussion, going in the bin!

Now I 'm going to have to guess how this will effect the inside floor of the driving compartment - I'll start counting rivets shortly :wink:

I'm going to presume these wheels (or a single roller?) would not have flanges and because this is definitely not a scale model - with only one photo and no plans no chance - I will probable work on the basis that it was about 6" in diameter
Gordon F

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Postby gfadvance » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:20 pm

OK managed to have a spare hour this afternoon and started the process of preparing moulds for the cowl over the "backplate"? and for the drivers compartment.

First step was to carve 2 masters from balsa. To harden them I gave them a couple of coats of super glue - for this type of job I just use the stuff I get from the Pound Shop.

Image

For these simple shapes I just use the technique variously described as draw moulding, pull moulding, etc

This is the plastic sheet which has been heated over a gas flame and when floppy pulled over the mould

Image Image

Second picture just shows the shape roughly sketched out on the moulding

This then was cut out. filed to shape and here test fitted on the backplate

Image Image

Going to have my second go at the drivers compartment, including anti-tilt - again I am moulding this as the original has curved ends.
Gordon F

User avatar
Willow Creek Traction
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 923
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:14 am
Location: Boonville, Missouri, USA
Interests: HO, On30, G/Hn15, regular G, kites, model rockets, the occasional model boat, retro sci-fi miniatures game.

Postby Willow Creek Traction » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:17 am

Those ends are something 8)

should I apologise for driving you to all this trouble? :?

or just sit back and see how you do it? :lol:
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

User avatar
Adrian
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 718
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:18 am
Location: Melbourne Australia
Interests: model railways including Gn15

Postby Adrian » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:34 am

G'day Gorden
Love the way that you formed the cowl.
Had thought to build a vacuum frame for doing the same thing but you have shown that that is not required.
Thank you
Adrian
Adrian Hoad
I might be daft but not stupid.

Imagineering
True GnATTERbox
True GnATTERbox
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:39 am
Location: Wellington, Gnu Zealand
Interests: On30, Gn15, HO, N & T

Postby Imagineering » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:29 am

More information to hand - apparently these Locos were used in Munitions factories before & during WWII.

No Sparks = No Bang
Murray McKenzie



Modelling 1/2 Scale Gn15



"Every day I count wasted, in which there have been no trains". -- Nietzsche, (almost)

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Postby gfadvance » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:45 am

OK as requested, got to the stage where I can place the bits roughly to get an idea of how it may look

Image Image

And one posed as close as I can get to the same position as the original photo

Image

Comparing the original and the model IMO its getting close - drivers compartment ( it will get the back extension added later looks nearly right, probably too curvy but can live with it!
Cowl needs to be reduced in size and this and the main compartment needs all the various beading on the edges added.

So considering I could not do anything about the wheel base, which should be nearer 19mm instead of the 24.5 of the spud unit proportionally think its starting to capture the feel of the prototype.

The figure, I think is actually 1/22.5, so when the 1/24 scratch-built driver is actually in place this should help the relative eye line height, etc - it will also let me reduce the driver compartment's length by at least 5 mm, which again will help proportions.

p.s. the use in munition stores may explain that back roller - where there are abrupt changes in gradient i.e. climbing up to a higher floor the roller
may be there to avoid the drivers compartment dragging on "concrete" floor and maybe producing sparks!
Gordon F

User avatar
Steve Bennett
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 12:55 am
Location: Exeter, UK
Interests: railways?

Postby Steve Bennett » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:45 am

gfadvance wrote:p.s. the use in munition stores may explain that back roller - where there are abrupt changes in gradient i.e. climbing up to a higher floor the roller
may be there to avoid the drivers compartment dragging on "concrete" floor and maybe producing sparks!


You are probably on the right track there, it would not be needed on level track, there is far too much weight above the drive part to worry about it tipping backward, even with a huge person in the cab :) . Also the smaller front wheels would aid in keeping it from tipping, much the same method is used on race cars, especially dragsters.

I'm not sure you need to reduce the cowling, once there are gauges, pipes and valves under there, it will probably look about right.
Coming together nicely, oh and Jon is small in 1:22.5 and big in 1:24, if I remember rightly, he scales to just over 6' in 1:24.
Steve Bennett

Sidelines

http://www.pepper7.com

User avatar
Dallas_M
GnatterBox Centurion
GnatterBox Centurion
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:52 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland (USA)
Interests: Funky narrow gauge equipment!

Postby Dallas_M » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:41 pm

Neat-o! :D

Figure certainly helps me eyeball the proportions ... looking good there, Gordon.
Cheers,

Dallas



Dallas Mallerich

Boulder Valley Models

www.bouldervalleymodels.com

Blackcloud Railways
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:05 pm

Postby Blackcloud Railways » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:18 pm

Has anyone measured these to see if they would be suitable as Gn15 air tanks for those of us bodgers not quite so skilled at making things (other than a mess) for ourselves?
Image
They're certainly the right sort of shape, they come full of compressed CO2 though which is a down side, but if you know a friendly publican or bar steward who still uses soda syphons (I'm sure some do) then you may even have a free source of empties. :D

User avatar
Ian-IoM
Seasoned Campaigner
Seasoned Campaigner
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:05 am
Location: Isle of Man
Interests: Narrow gauge & industrial railways, model making, drinking beer, eating cheese and listening to Pere Ubu.

Postby Ian-IoM » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:52 pm

Hmmm, didn't know those were still available but I'd think they could be worth a look, I'd estimate about 2 1/2" long overall for the "Sparklet bulb" type so probably in the right size range.

Disclaimer :roll: ... Not an accurate dimension - I'm thinking back to when I used to make CO2 powered model aircraft and that's getting on for 30 years ago, eeek :shock:
Ian K
Be seeing you...

Imagineering
True GnATTERbox
True GnATTERbox
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:39 am
Location: Wellington, Gnu Zealand
Interests: On30, Gn15, HO, N & T

Postby Imagineering » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:30 am

Dallas_M wrote:Neat-o! :D

Figure certainly helps me eyeball the proportions ... looking good there, Gordon.


From the original Posting about this Loco . . .

Length (w/o cab): 1250 mm
Hight: 1250 mm
Width: 820 mm
Wheel-dia: 350 / 250mm
Wheelbase: 480 mm
Gauge: ?
Murray McKenzie



Modelling 1/2 Scale Gn15



"Every day I count wasted, in which there have been no trains". -- Nietzsche, (almost)

User avatar
gfadvance
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Interests: Models of all sorts boats, planes and now G15

Postby gfadvance » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:12 pm

I becoming to think that I really, really need help :!: :!:

After discussions about the "rear roller" decided that if I was going to include this I had better add it now

Image

You can just make it out at rear of drivers compartment, just like original photo.

Image Image

Detail of how the roller was added, you can see that I also decided that I couldn't live with the curved bottom edges (downside of the moulding technique)
I wrapped the body in couple of layers of paper, hardened up with super glue and filled /sanded to get sharp corners on bottom of the compartment.

Image

overhead shot to show proportions and amended cowl, also amended front of compartment as looking at the photo decied that it showed that the front also had curved corners.
Gordon F


Return to “Modelling Matters”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests