Acyrics and weathering

For discussion of the issues faced when building a model or layout - how to replicate wood, what glues to use, exactly how much weathering can a Gnat take, a good source of detailing accessories - you get the picture, I'm sure.

Moderator: GnATTERbox Moderators

User avatar
Korschtal
GnatterBox Centurion
GnatterBox Centurion
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Interests: Modern image and industrial narrow gauge, German narrow gauge, especially the island lines.

Acyrics and weathering

Postby Korschtal » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:04 am

What methods do other people find effective with acrylic paints? I've done a fair bit of dry brushing but variation is always good, and I'm after a way to show paint damage from the small accidents that are part of the the daily life of rolling stock, oil stains, that sort of thing. Any thoughts?
Andy in Stuttgart
More railway misadventures on:
www.korschtal.wordpress.com

underworld
GnatterBox Centurion
GnatterBox Centurion
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:23 pm
Location: NW Ohio, SE Michigan
Interests: narrow gauge everything...and standard gauge too!!!

Postby underworld » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:52 pm

Are you familiar with using rubber cement? Apply your first layer or layers of paint. Brush on some rubber cement on the area where you want the paint damage. After the rubber cement has set, put the next paint over the top. When the top paint has dried, the rubber cement can be removed by hand to reveal the painted area underneath. A good tutorial can be found here......

http://bouldervalleymodels.com/index.ph ... page&id=12

first it shows the salt rust technique. About halfway down it describes the rubber cement technique. I have seen people use this with several layers of paint. A friend of mine did this on a model of an early VW bus. He painted a few damage areas, then an original paint color, then two more colors. This way it looks like a vehicle that has had the color changed several times over the years. I'll see if he can send a photo to me.


underworld
http://www.myspace.com/underworldimage
Currently on tour with Sleeper Cell

Sleeper Cell new album out soon!

Listen for me mornings 5:30-10 89Xradio.com
Shooting video for MTVs Making Of A Metal Band

User avatar
rue_d_etropal
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 2165
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:55 pm
Location: Accrington and sometimes France
Interests: France, any narrow/minmum gauge 40cm,50cm , 60cm

Postby rue_d_etropal » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:53 pm

my method is to apply a primer coat of grey acryllic first to all models. Either hand brush or car spray can. This gives something for other paint to stick to.
I then put some acryllic paint on in spots and spread around with a wet paintbrush. I descibe this process as washing the paint on, as you should be able to apply a very thin coat. If not enough colour, add more paint. When dry apllly7 weathering colour in the same way, but add more water so it washing down into cracks etc, just like real rain. Quite a lot of mucky(paint) will come off model, so have a tray or covering under model.
One reason I use acryllic paint is simplicity of use, only needing water to clean brushes.In fact I mtend to leave brushes in pot of water, and the resulting gunge that collects at bottom of pot makes excellent weathering gunge!
This works for me, but I am not into fine painting of small details.
Simon Dawson
(Simon D.),
Narrow gauge Francophile interested in 1m, 60cm,50cm , 40cm and smaller gauges . Build in scales from 1/6th to 1/24th. Also 1/32nd and 1/35th using 16.5mm track to represent 50cm and 60cm gauges.
http://www.rue-d-etropal.com

User avatar
Korschtal
GnatterBox Centurion
GnatterBox Centurion
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Interests: Modern image and industrial narrow gauge, German narrow gauge, especially the island lines.

Postby Korschtal » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:14 pm

Thank you both... I'm guessing 'Rubber Cement' is like the stuff I used to know as Copydex. I'll now have to work out what it is in German. Have you tried the idea out on a card surface?

I'll be trying both methods- although I think I'll have to wait until I'm not in the living room for Simonns, I can see some places where it would work well on the current 1:35 project and my 'main' and much neglected 1:55 one where some of the sticl should look pretty work worn.
Andy in Stuttgart

More railway misadventures on:

www.korschtal.wordpress.com

User avatar
PeterH
Seasoned Campaigner
Seasoned Campaigner
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:54 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Interests: Railway history, drinking beer

Postby PeterH » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:43 pm

I am fairly new to this, but here's what has worked for me. The order you do things is important - for me it is base coat (see 1 below), add faded or major rusty areas (see 1 below), make base colours more complex (3 below), add rust & grime (2, 4, 5 below), add dust (2 below).

Base coats need to be lighter (more white in them) than you think because adding the paint on top tends to darken them. I found it looks better if the weathering coats have similar value to the base coats, eg if you use a light green base coat then mix a bit of white with the weathering paints, otherwise there is too much contrast.

1 With a round No 1 hog bristle brush (3 mm diameter), held vertical. Dip in paint, then dab on paper a few times to spread paint into the brush. Dab onto model. This makes a fairly solid coverage with an irregular edge. If you leave gaps the colour below shows through - I don't use a mask like rubber cement or salt.

2 Same as 1 but use a flat hog bristle brush (12 mm across), held vertical. Pick up less paint and dab onto paper more and much harder to spread (damage) the bristles, so that when you dab it lightly onto the model it leaves a circle of tiny dots & blobs about 20 mm across. Dab many times onto model to build up layers of rust or grime (use raw umber, raw sienna or a mix of these with white). You can drybrush highlights at this stage too.

3 A wash. I use 1:1 Golden Fluid Matte Medium (because it does not have thickeners in it) and water and a tiny bit of paint mixed in. Apply lightly and evenly across all of model with the 12 mm flat hog brush. Use to make colours more complex and interesting, eg a yellow wash over green makes the green look nice & warm.

4 Same as 3 but apply to smallish areas (with vertical strokes to simulate gravity) to simulate rust, grime, oil, grease

5 Same as 3 but apply wash more thickly. It runs into angles and edges to simulate dirt & rust that accumulates there.
Peter

User avatar
KEG
Millegniumer
Millegniumer
Posts: 1248
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:42 am
Location: Duesseldorf
Interests: creative Nonsense

Postby KEG » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:28 pm

I'll now have to work out what it is in German


Ask for FIXOGUM or FOTOKLEBER if you want Rubber Cement.


Have Fun

Juergen

Will Vale
GnatterBox Centurion
GnatterBox Centurion
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:34 am
Location: Wellington, NZ
Interests: BC narrow gauge, NS, Enoden, other stuff too long to mention.

Postby Will Vale » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:07 am

I'm also relatively new to this, so take this with a pinch of salt, but...

Applying a wash, leaving it for a few minutes, and then wiping it off vertically with an artist's wash brush (square-ended) is good for rain streaks, which would fall under the general wear + tear category. Also for washes, I've found it helpful to thin acrylics with alcohol, or Tamiya acrylic thinner, since it flows over the surface much better and won't just cling in the details - useful if you're fading or tinting paint. I found when thinned with water, washes would often bead on the surface.

I did some experiments last year with these - see here for more pictures. There's more description on another site which is down at the moment :( [BG15: Contains broad gauge material which some viewers may find offensive]

Image

This was washed and drybrushed with Tamiya and GW acrylics plus some MIG powders. Also I know it's not quite answering the original question but for "battle damage" coloured pencils are very useful, and indeed normal HB as well, for exposed bare metal on edges.

Probably the most useful weathering advice I've had is to look at prototype pictures whenever possible!

Cheers,

Will

underworld
GnatterBox Centurion
GnatterBox Centurion
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:23 pm
Location: NW Ohio, SE Michigan
Interests: narrow gauge everything...and standard gauge too!!!

Postby underworld » Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:27 am

KEG wrote:
I'll now have to work out what it is in German


Ask for FIXOGUM or FOTOKLEBER if you want Rubber Cement.


Have Fun

Juergen


Juergen
Thanks for the translation !!! 8)

Thank you both... I'm guessing 'Rubber Cement' is like the stuff I used to know as Copydex. I'll now have to work out what it is in German. Have you tried the idea out on a card surface?


Should work fine with card as it doesn't really penetrate the surface.


underworld
http://www.myspace.com/underworldimage

Currently on tour with Sleeper Cell



Sleeper Cell new album out soon!



Listen for me mornings 5:30-10 89Xradio.com

Shooting video for MTVs Making Of A Metal Band

User avatar
Willow Creek Traction
Demi-Millegniumer
Demi-Millegniumer
Posts: 923
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:14 am
Location: Boonville, Missouri, USA
Interests: HO, On30, G/Hn15, regular G, kites, model rockets, the occasional model boat, retro sci-fi miniatures game.

Postby Willow Creek Traction » Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:32 pm

Note about Tamiya acrylics - I've for 20 years been using rubbing (isopropyl) alcohol as paint stripper - soak in for about 20 minutes and Tamiya paint rinses right off.

Advise, from experience, care when thinning with alcohol for washes over Tamiya's acrylics (which are synthetic lacquers).

Other paints except oilbase lacquers appear to be unaffected.
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

User avatar
Korschtal
GnatterBox Centurion
GnatterBox Centurion
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Interests: Modern image and industrial narrow gauge, German narrow gauge, especially the island lines.

Postby Korschtal » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:24 pm

Thanks for the suggestions (And thanks for yet another translation Jurgen)

@PeterH: What paints do you use? Acrylics or other paints?

Will Vale wrote:I've found it helpful to thin acrylics with alcohol, or Tamiya acrylic thinner, since it flows over the surface much better and won't just cling in the details - useful if you're fading or tinting paint. I found when thinned with water, washes would often bead on the surface....

Also I know it's not quite answering the original question but for "battle damage" coloured pencils are very useful, and indeed normal HB as well, for exposed bare metal on edges.
Will


Thanks for the tip re: thinning. I guess 'battle damage' is Graffiti?

I use acrylics from a variety of sources- started with Lukas artists acrylics for no better reason than our youngest is called Lucas, but since I've used just about anything. The green 1:35 diesel has some decorators acrylics mixed in with everything else.

When I get into town next I'll see what I can find.
Andy in Stuttgart

More railway misadventures on:

www.korschtal.wordpress.com

Will Vale
GnatterBox Centurion
GnatterBox Centurion
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:34 am
Location: Wellington, NZ
Interests: BC narrow gauge, NS, Enoden, other stuff too long to mention.

Postby Will Vale » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:38 pm

Korschtal wrote:Thanks for the tip re: thinning.

Bear in mind Forrest's addendum though - I've also used alcohol on a cotton bud to scrub Tamiya paint back to the factory finish, but I haven't had problems with the washes eating away at what's underneath since they dry so quickly.

I guess 'battle damage' is Graffiti?

I was thinking of small scars, paint chips etc. The pencils make it very easy to put the colour where you want it, and you can also use them for highlighting edges as an alternative to drybrushing. An example is on the panel right of the logo on this one - when these are unloaded by diggers the bucket teeth gouge great scars on the insides, which rust on the outside:

Image

I tried using pencils for graffiti but it looks like chalk rather than spraypaint so it'd only be useful for an earlier period. The graffiti in the pics is a mix of brush painted (white) and very fine ink pen (black).

Another vote for the artists acrylics as well - they're great for stippling since they're stickier hold a little texture.

User avatar
PeterH
Seasoned Campaigner
Seasoned Campaigner
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:54 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Interests: Railway history, drinking beer

Postby PeterH » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:18 am

Korschtal wrote:@PeterH: What paints do you use? Acrylics or other paints?


I use artist's acrylics because I perceive the tins of modeller's paint as being expensive and as coming in strange colours (rust, track, concrete). I make mixes of just a few colours (mostly yellow ochre, ultramarine blue, raw umber, white) for consistency of look and because it is simpler to understand how the paints mix.

I use mostly cheap student's colours (Louvre) but some more expensive (Golden). Expensive artist's acrylics have fewer fillers and are therefore brighter out of the tube than cheaper ones, but I always dull the colour with white or another colour so this does not matter to me. Cheap acrylics seem to last long enough for me. I have heard that more expensive artist acrylics are glossier but have not noticed much difference. All are a little shiny, and I am going to try Jo Sonja craft paints which are supposed to be dead flat.
Peter


Return to “Modelling Matters”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron