Non-oily steam generators

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Moronguhl
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Non-oily steam generators

Postby Moronguhl » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:34 pm

Hi all

As some of you may have seen I'm working on a brewery/distillery layout set in winter (jan or feb most likely) so there'll be frost on the ground and a light dusting of snow on rooftops and guttering. Seeing as breweries use a lot of heating and cooling processes to manafacture their products I love the idea of whisps of smoke coming out of various vents and chimneys on the main building, but from what I read most generators are oily, smelly and tend to leave oil deposits all over the layout.

Does anyone one know of one that doesn't? In therory there could be a mini kettle pumping steam out but this is probably very unsafe consdering the high voltage electrics around it!

Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated!
Christian Summers

We're gonna need a little rolling stock...and a lot of luck!

I used to have a project link here until the thread was deleted... :(

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Gerry Bullock
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Re: Non-oily steam generators

Postby Gerry Bullock » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:36 pm

Moronguhl wrote:Hi all

---------, but from what I read most generators are oily, smelly and tend to leave oil deposits all over the layout.

Does anyone one know of one that doesn't? In therory there could be a mini kettle pumping steam out but this is probably very unsafe consdering the high voltage electrics around it!

Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated!


This has been dealt with before here Christian:

http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?p=51910#51910

As you'll see not really a satisfactory conclusion, however Brian Stubbles (Wheels) who gets a mention in the thread says that he has a fluid that does NOT leave oily deposits. If you PM me I'll forward his contact details.
He's not a member of this group.
So little time, so many ideas!!!!! GerryB.
http://gn15gnutt.blogspot.com/

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Oztrainz
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Postby Oztrainz » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:49 pm

Hi Christian,
Prof Klyzlr used/was planning to use a CO2 fogger on his Brooklyn 3am layout for steam from manholes etc in the street. He has also had good results on the exhibition circuit out here using one of the larger Seuthe type smoke generator on his 9 Mile layout for wafting smoke from a logging winch boiler. The trick was not to run the unit at full volts. He should be able to add more detail on his experiences once he comes up for air again (busy work workload and a 2-day exhibition last weekend.
John Garaty
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Adrian
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Postby Adrian » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:08 am

G'day Christian

Its possible to buy 'foggers' to be used in garden ponds. They use ultra sonics to vapourise the water and produce a 'fog'

They are low voltage and or course use no oil.

The only problems that I can see is that as the 'fog' clears it will leave pure water behind. This could cause soggy buildings :shock:
Also the fog tends to be heavier than air and so floats down, not up like steam and smoke.

Plan to use one in a future layout that will have a working waterfall.

Cheers
Adrian Hoad
I might be daft but not stupid.

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Richard Morton
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Postby Richard Morton » Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:30 am

Moronguhl... the garden or the ultra mini indoor water light foggers sound like a good plan but I also happened upon a site a while back that is selling scented smoke liquids, I'll see if I can track them down for you again.

Regards
Richard

Here you go follow this link they sell about 34 different scented safe smokes even in pill form it seems.

http://www.megasteam.com/

Hope this help you
Again
Regards
Richard

Brack
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Postby Brack » Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:23 pm

you can get very small fogger units - the ones intended for keeping small amphibians or reptiles (or growing carnivorous plants). although as hadbeen mentioned, they're built to keep an enclosed environment humid... build out of plastic and make sure your baseboard is well sealed.

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Postby commerlad » Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:33 pm

Cant remember who's but saw one diorama using a pond stye mini fogger with a 12 volt computer fan to blow it up a chimney
Sometimes I think laterally, Then I have to get up.

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Postby Adrian » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:06 pm

G'day all

Just remembered that I have seen a 'fogger' used on a layout. Mounted at the top of the layout in an enclosed box with a small fan blowing the 'fog' along a flex plastic tube with the 'fog' appearing over the top of a 'mountain'. The fog then dropped into the vally disappearing before it reached the bottom of the layout.

The layout was a little over 3 feet high

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Adrian Hoad

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Prof Klyzlr
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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:19 am

Dear Christian, Gnatterboxers,

The majority of my existing smoke deployments used Seuthe smoke gens, either 501 or 503 "bottom feeder" units. I run them at 1/2 the rated volts or less, thus eliminating the possibility of "dry boiling" the gen to the point of destruction. The lower "oil cracking" voltage also affects the smoke ejection velocity. The result is a far more gentle "wafting" effect as opposed to a visibly vicious "blast" of smoke.

Using bottom-feeder gens allows plumbing of remote oil tanks, to ensure sustained oil supply in mission-critical and marathon show deployments. (One of my earliest smoke-gen deployments was a small Seuthe #22 gen in the vertical boiler of a HO sawmill. That was a top-loader, and I learned the hardway that having to constantly refill the tiny built-in 3ml reservoir got old very quickly, particularly under show conditions!).

What to plumb the tanks to the gens with? Well, rubber RC car/airplane fuel tubing. Mounting the tank at or slightly above the level of the gen ensures the system is "auto-priming".

I use Seuthe smoke oil exclusively. Mixing Smoke Oil types and thicknesses can encourage clocgging of the gen, which can be a pain to rectify. Some modellers use baby oil, as is is significantly cheaper than Seuthe or other "model smoke oil". However, baby oil is comparatively _very_Thick_, and is virtually guaranteed to clog most gens if the gen is left to cool down with oil still in the chamber.

In terms of $$$, one of the other benefits of running the gens at 1/2 volts is that you use far less oil! I buy Seuthe oil in 250ml bulk bottles, and such a bottle tends to last me more than 3 years of regular show service...

I do have 2 X ultrasonic "water atomiser" foggers salted away, which were intended as "drizzly rain" gens for my current HO street switching layout. However, while the gens worked a treat standalone, they:
1 - used water too fast
2 - couldn't be easily controlled such that the water level was maintained at "optimum" to give the best fog-conditions
3 - weren't compatible with any known form of dispersion system that would give a wide constant "drizzle" without re-condensating the fog back to totally out-of-scale water droplets
(ask me how I know this...)

UltraSonics actually get a good wrap with the RC boat crowd,
as "fuel" for the fogger is plentifully available...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiL3OXvKf7E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wo2u2oFtYM

BTW, apart from the out-of-scale water droplets,
and the risk of soaking layouts and structures that are not adequately prepared, designed, or constructed,
the water vapour emitted as fog by the ultrasonics is pure H2O
(any chemicals or impurities are seperated at the point of fog creation).

This is interesting, because as shown on a previous edition of Carl Arendt's Scrapbook, it is possible for mechs to run in such "pure water" baths...

http://scottpages.net/SpiritiNgAway.html

Anyway, I hope this helps. More info available if required...
Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr


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