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trefor
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Postby trefor » Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:35 pm

Hi
These are some photo's of the layout I'm building at the moment. Probably a little (well a lot) ambitious as its my first model railway layout in 40+ years.

The idea is an estate railway (original eh) where the estate produces timber, pit props, other softwood and also some hardwood which is sawn up in the water powered timber mill. Also there is a quarry on the estate. Shades of the Kery tramway possibly except that the owner, Lord ?, is/was deteremined not to have a 24 ins gauge line, he was captivated by the idea of 15 ins gauge. However he was advised, strongly, to go for 24 ins gauge so he split the difference and decided on 18 ins gauge or possibly 15 ins gauge he/I am not sure yet.

The scene is centred around the sawmill area of the estate, the buildings being converted farm buildings. The sawmill, on the right in the picture, is an old bank barn that has been modified and is water powered. The other buildings are a converted cow shed and a stable (possibly used to house a shunting horse?), on the left at right angles is a cart shed, possibly some timber vehicles will be housed here. The gap between the cow shed and the sawmill will contain a building yet to be started. The track will exit stage right into a cutting which will, hopefully, disguise the fact that the track loops around behind the building into fiddle yards, to the left the track will exit through some gates and loop around to make a continous run.

The buildings are constructed in 5mm foam board and will be faced with DAS possibly and carved to represent stone. Gulp.

As I said probably much to ambitious :!: :roll:

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Postby kf4mat » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:01 pm

Hi Trefor,

Great looking start... much farther along than I am. We are still in the planning stage this side of the pond.

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what DAS is.

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Postby trefor » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:18 pm

Hi kf4mat

I have been planning this for about five months so far, so not so fast really. :)

DAS is an air hardening modelling clay. You apply it 2 to 3mm (?) thick or so and then when its dry carve it. I have seen some great examples of this technique posted on the gnatterbox but I'm not sure where, sorry.
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Postby kf4mat » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:28 pm

Okay, I think I know what it is, haven't seen it used so will be watching to see how you do it.

I have also seen where people use auto body filler (bondo) to make stone blocks. I was thinking of testing that out to see what it looks like.

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Postby trefor » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:09 pm

Do you mean apply the bondo over a sub structure or make individual stone blocks and then building with them?
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Postby kf4mat » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:27 pm

trefor wrote:Do you mean apply the bondo over a sub structure or make individual stone blocks and then building with them?


I don't have the article right in front of me but basically they cut out the blocks and apply them to the sub structure.

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Postby trefor » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:31 pm

Oh a bit like apply brick or stone slips I guess. Uhm could be interesting for a building or a wall made of dressed stone.
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Postby Willow Creek Traction » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:22 pm

That's going to be pretty neat with the water wheel.
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Postby Glen A » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:24 pm

What a fantastic start Trefor!

You can already get a good feel for what it is going to look like, and you have captured the theme very nicely.

I like the way you have got tracks leading off at either end for possible future extensions later.

I hope you are going to have that water wheel motorised. That building is plenty big enough to be able to put a drive motor in there. :wink:

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Postby trefor » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:16 pm

Hi Willow Creek (is that what I call you) and Glenn thanks for the kind words.

Yes I was planning to motorise the waterwheel. I don't see that as to much of a problem. Famous last words.

However it's the water that has got me thinking. Yeah I could use resin etc for the water but the supply to the wheel is planned to be via a timber leat coming in from the right over the bank and the railway cutting behind the bank barn. Getting the correct 'look' where the water flows onto the moving wheel could be tricky. :?

Still its a challenge I guess.

Yeah I was thinking of extensions that to the right going to the quarry, that to the left going to an engine shed/workshop possibly. Mind you the main board is four feet long and the board with the wood mill is two feet long. I'm probably talking about another two boards, one two feet and one four feet, so this will make a total length of twelve feet with the extensions.

Uhm it might not happen, still we'll see.
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Postby henrix72se » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:17 pm

Wow! Looks great !! :D

I do not think it looks to big, it all depends on which level you put your demands. Take it in steps there the first step is just to make the tracks and switches work fine with vehicles. Then just add a bit more, plus a bit more... :wink: until it reaches your dream.

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Postby Adrian » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:47 am

G'day Trefor

Like your layout.....looks good at the moment with lots of potential :D

Yes I was planning to motorise the waterwheel. I don't see that as to much of a problem. Famous last words.

However it's the water that has got me thinking. Yeah I could use resin etc for the water but the supply to the wheel is planned to be via a timber leat coming in from the right over the bank and the railway cutting behind the bank barn. Getting the correct 'look' where the water flows onto the moving wheel could be tricky.

Have you thought of using real water ?

Yes....I know that there are lots of problems....basically....
1) You can't scale nature.....but build the waterway to look natural with just a thin layer of water over them and shield with foliage and fences etc so that there is not a clear uninterrupted view of the waterway and the running water will give an impression of 'running water'.
2) Leaks....there will be leakage but with a bit of forward thinking and a plastic 'tray' in the right area under the layout the excess water should not be a major problem.
3) Splashing......there will be some splashing, especially around the waterwheel, so make sure that the modelling in that area is at least 'water resistant'.....using plastic sheet instead of card for the buildings......and water resistant glues for the ground cover. ( the 'yellow' version of 'white' glue )

To provide movement to the water a pump is required.
I would suggest a pump designed for fountains or similar. Pumps for screen washers on motor cars would probably work but not sure how long they would last if left running all the time.

Model the waterway as if you are going to fill it with clear resin complete with underwater details etc but then give it several coats of clear waterproof varnish or resin to stop leakage and the details being washed away.

If you do use real water the waterwheel will not, of course, require a motor, although it may need a brake of some sort to slow it down a bit.

The really good thing is that you can tell your admiring audience that "yes, it is real water" :!:

Hope that this gives you something to think about.

Cheers
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Postby michael » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:32 am

Very Nice start Trefor. Another method for stone is one that Steve Bennett used and that is to cut up the stones from the flat parts of the paper egg cartons the ones with the rough texture. It also looks great. I'm too tired to find the link right now as it has been a long day.
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Postby Glen A » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:29 am

Adrian wrote:G'day Trefor

Have you thought of using real water ?


I've thought of using real water before. But I wouldn’t be trying it in this case. The water wheel is too close to the track and the risk of splashing (which you have identified) is too great.

The transition from water race to waterwheel could be done with clear plastic food rap. (that’s its what I used). Photobucket is down at the moment, I'll see if I can find a photo when it comes back on line.

EDIT>
here it is at the very bottom of the photo.

It you leave it too long, the paddles on the water wheel move it as they go around, and being clear it sort of sparkles like real water:

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Postby KEG » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:51 am

That´s an amazing start for a Gn15 layout. The building shells give an impression for seize and proportion. If I understand it right, you started with a 2 x 4 and extended it for the watermill.

The egg carton stones are described here: http://www.miniland.ca/EggClass1.html

I tried it on the lower retaining wall of this Gn15 module

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trefor
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Postby trefor » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:04 am

Thanks for the comments guys. I did, briefly, toy with the idea of real water but I'm running scared. The food wrap idea sounds interesting I'll have to think about it, I guess that I don't need to decide for a while yet!

Yeah I read about the egg carton method on gnatterbox, I'll have to try a test piece. It has the advantage of probably being a lot lighter than DAS. This is important as all the buildings are demountable so as to leave a, fairly, flat board for storage.

Tom's auto filler blocks looks interesting also.
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Postby Bilco » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:57 am

Hi Trefor,

The grouping of your buildings looks very good, and the idea of the cutting 'round the back of the mill is very neat.

I've used the egg-box method for stone walls, making the blocks regular rectangles rather than random stone - I have a stock left over for the 'next ' layout :shock: . I stuck the blocks onto foamcore structures, then painted over the lot with granite texture paint from Heki, then rubbed artists acrylic texture paste (white) into the gaps to show the mortar. Ended up like this: Image

Different brands of egg-boxes have different texture, to add a bit of variety, and I suppose I could have touched in some blocks with a different shade of grey - I just rubbed in some weathering powders.
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Postby Simon Andrews » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:11 am

Great start Trefor 8) Looking forward on seeing how your take on the Kerry Tramway takes shape.

Simon.
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Postby trefor » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:31 am

Tom (Kkf4mat) was asking about DAS. I was having a bit of a brain storm. Just remembered that I made a test building about six months or so ago.

There where lots of mistakes, two examples being-
1. basic research - the roof pitch is wrong :(
2. The DAS caused the building (5mm foam board shell) to distort in places. :shock:

Having learnt from this I made another test peice which unfortunately inadvertently got destroyed :cry:

However the lessons where applied to the buildings on the layout they are much more heavily braced internally and I researched the UK's traditional farm buildings a bit more :)


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Postby trefor » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:48 am

Hi Bilco
Your stone building looks great. Of course the egg carton method would help to avoid the distortion problem I had with my test building.

Thanks Simon
I havn't addressed the idea of loco's yet. Possibly a 15ins/18ins gauge excelsior :?: :x
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Postby Moronguhl » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:02 am

This is looking really good Trefor, loving the mock ups, especially the huge barn with the water wheel! I'd love to squeeze a bit of water into my layout but there isn't the room, I'm looking forward to seeing how your 'waterworks' turn out!
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I used to have a project link here until the thread was deleted... :(

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Postby trefor » Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:21 pm

Hi all
I've been doing some experimenting.

Image

The sample on the left is made from das modelling clay rolled out into a 'pancake' and then cut up into 'tiles', these vary from between 2mm and about 5mm thick and when dry I glued them to a substrate of 5mm foam board. This is similar to the method that Tom (kf4mat) told me about except I didn't use car body filler, because I didn't have any to hand. I will try car body filler as it would be durable glued over WBP plywood if used in the garden.

The sample on the right is made from cut up eggbox carton in a similar way to the victoria miniland method.

In both cases the mortar is a very old ready mixed textured ceiling finish
however I think the mason must have been an apprentice as he kept getting the mortar all over the face of the 'stones'.

I still have a lot of practice to do as I'm not happy with my mortaring (grouting?), the shapes of the 'stone' blocks or the size of the mortar gaps.

These are probably not the greatest of photo's but I think on balance I prefer the egg carton piece. The variations in thickness are to great on the DAS 'tile' sample this gives a lot of texture (is that the right word) but I feel that this is probably to much. The egg carton method also has the virtue of being very light in weight.

I will probably have a go at making a small building, using the eggbox method, over the next day or so.
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Postby kf4mat » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:28 pm

Hi Trefor,

I'm on holiday down in Nags Head (Outer Banks of North Carolina) at the moment so havn't been on as much. Both of your examples look really good. Amazingly I would never have know that the one on the right was egg carton if you had not said so.

Great work.

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Postby Glen A » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:15 pm

Good job on both!

I would use the method on the right for a building, and method on the left for tunnel or bridge abutment.

The one on left has the stone more pronounced from the mortar ( which I personally like more because it shows off the texture more), however as you point out it is probably too much for a building (which would normally be well maintained). However it is conceivable that some mortar might have worn away from a bridge.

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Postby trefor » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:57 pm

Thanks guys.

Glen made an interesting point about the state of the maintenance of buildings. I have got some photo's of farm buildings in Wales that are made of field stone (they are not in a slate area), god they look rough. Still the layout is supposed to be an estate line set on a prosperous estate with timber, stone and of course agricultural exports.

I'm having a go at making a test piece using foam rocks (frocks) at the moment. Hopefully I will use this method for the sides of the cutting on the right hand side of the layout.

Enjoy your holiday Tom.
Trefor


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