Smith's dream - a short bush tram layout

For discussion of the issues faced when building a model or layout - how to replicate wood, what glues to use, exactly how much weathering can a Gnat take, a good source of detailing accessories - you get the picture, I'm sure.

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michael
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Postby michael » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:18 am

The layout is shaping up gnicely Peter, looking forward to the next phase.
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Postby PeterH » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:20 am

Now the bins to dump ore into the V-skip. This time without the benefit of CAD. A sketch on an envelope, then raise the four corner posts and cut and place timber till done:

Image

Image

Image

Emboldened by how well my paint dot spikes looked a couple of posts ago, I made NBWs by gluing on 2 mm squares of 'rust' coloured card, then placed a dot of brown paint in the middle of each.

I did not show any of my clamps in these pictures - the sight of bare aluminium earlier seems to have overheated some imaginations.

Things always look good in nature:
Image
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Postby SOUTHPASS » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:03 am

the sight of bare aluminium earlier seems to have overheated some imaginations.


Yes, after that I went out and bought myself a new hair dryer 8).
Actually the heat gun that I have used to hurry up my paint drying and occasional model melt decided to pull the pin.
That's my excuse and I am sticking to it. :D

A sketch on an envelope,


Now you are talking "real man" modelling. :lol:
It is looking good.
.....WARNING....
Contains images that anoraks may find disturbing.
1:24 scale 16.5mm gauge.
Yes I know it's all old and rusty, but I just model things as I see them......
Have a good one....John B.

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Postby scott b » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:20 pm

A sketch on an envelope,


Now you are talking "real man" modelling. :lol:
It is looking good.[/quote]

A sketch... that requires forethought and an envelope luxury! Next thing you`re going to tell us you use more than a jackknife and a hammer to make your models. :wink:

really nice build the nbw`s look really convincing.
Scott B

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Postby SOUTHPASS » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:58 pm

And painted with a " thumbnail dipped in tar ". :D
.....WARNING....

Contains images that anoraks may find disturbing.

1:24 scale 16.5mm gauge.

Yes I know it's all old and rusty, but I just model things as I see them......

Have a good one....John B.

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Postby PeterH » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:24 am

More ground work.

I made some frocks, and was impressed by how quick and realistic they were. But I didn't use them because the rock did not look like the soft coastal rock I was after, and was worried that more imaginations would overheat.

Image
Instead, I just gouged at the foam with pliers, wire brush and a blunt craft knife. Then I filled in my mistakes and built up the stream banks with a goop of white foam beads, lightweight filler and glue (the filler adds texture and seems to make it set faster). Finally I added a bit of PVA to some lightweight filler and blobbed it on with my finger to hide where the foam beads showed too much; which created more texture.

So not
SOUTHPASS wrote:And painted with a " thumbnail dipped in tar ". :D

but a finger dipped in filler.

I discovered that white bead foam comes in more than one bead size, and the less common, finer bead, does not need disguising with filler.
Peter

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Postby Glen A » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:27 pm

PeterH wrote:I made some frocks. But I didn't use them


:idea: Thats ok, you can save them for when you start the extension on to the next module! :twisted: :lol:


The work you have done is looking great and I am looking forward to seeing the next step.

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Postby dieselwater » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:32 am

This really is a beautiful little railway Peter 8) I love the modesty of just a single up n down line performing its function. Very inspiring.
Little old lines to somewhere.

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Ore bin

Postby lenelg » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:58 am

Peter,

Beautiful finish on your ore bin! But how are you going to empty it into your skips? An ore bin would usually have a floor sloping towards the discharge chute, to keep ore moving in the desired direction.
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Postby PeterH » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:06 pm

lenelg wrote:how are you going to empty it into your skips?

Good point. In NZ bins that stood over the track often seem to have flat bottoms, with a smaller chute/gate to direct the material into the wagon. Maybe because that is simpler to build, and to give extra capacity. I imagine when they got almost empty someone was pushed in to shovel the stuff down the chute.

My model won't load and unload the skip like Glen's does. I will add a chute to give the suggestion that it might

Glen A wrote:the extension on to the next module! :twisted: :lol:

Did Picasso paint the Mona Lisa with an extension to a near-by painting ??
Peter

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Postby PeterH » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:58 am

I would appreciate some help with scenicing:

1 Is there a kind of foam that is best for frocks ? The foam I used was very soft and I could make cuts in it with a craft knife (rather than needing to use a saw). When I rasped it with the wire brush usually nothing much happened; occasionally a big chunk of foam would rip right off, and only sometimes would the surface tear off to create the 'natural rock' look I sought.

2 I wanted a smooth looking frock but tended to end up with the small foam holes visible - more like scoria. Do you always see these small holes? I didn't use skim coat - I tried a flexible gap filler (selleys no more gaps) or a flexible glue (Resene multishield) and dumped fine dirt on it.

3 For a general dirt look on the layout, I applied glue, then fine dirt. This dried the same colour as the dirt, which I wanted. When I applied more glue and sprinkled on ground foam, then where the glued dirt was visible between the patches of ground foam it had dried much darker its original colour. Is there a way of avoiding this darkening ?
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Postby SOUTHPASS » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:00 am

G,day Peter, this works for me....
First I spread my dirt on the ground, while it's dry you can move it about a bit with a soft brush. Next I have a spray bottle with wet water in it ( just a small drop of washing up detergent mixed with a cup of water ). The finest spray you can get so it doesn't disturb the dirt. Just a light coat to slightly moisten it. I follow this with my glue mix. Again wet water, 20% PVA glue-80% water ( in reality I don't actually measure anything ). I use a container, a bit like a sauce bottle with pouring spout. with this the whole lot is quiet liberally doused with this mix.
Give this a little while to settle down and then do the same with your foam. It may be best to leave the foam to the next day if you aren't in to big of a hurry.
It may take a couple of days to a week for it all to be solid. I have at times put down 3 or 4 layers using this method, have even come back years later and freshened up old scenery with another layer. Keep the glue mix nice and thin and you won't get it showing.
As I said this is what works for me. :)
.....WARNING....

Contains images that anoraks may find disturbing.

1:24 scale 16.5mm gauge.

Yes I know it's all old and rusty, but I just model things as I see them......

Have a good one....John B.

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Postby demaine22 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:38 am

This is shaping up extremely well!l looks great!
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Postby PeterH » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:05 am

SOUTHPASS wrote: ... Keep the glue mix nice and thin and you won't get it showing.

Ahh, that's it. My glue dilution was more like 1:1, with no wet water spray first. I tried using a spray, then glue diluted 1:4 and it did not get nearly so dark. Still a bit. And I put the glue in a squeezy bottle as you said - much faster than the eye dropper I had been using. Thanks.
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Postby Imagineering » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:35 am

PeterH wrote:
SOUTHPASS wrote: ... Keep the glue mix nice and thin and you won't get it showing.

Ahh, that's it. My glue dilution was more like 1:1, with no wet water spray first. I tried using a spray, then glue diluted 1:4 and it did not get nearly so dark. Still a bit. And I put the glue in a squeezy bottle as you said - much faster than the eye dropper I had been using. Thanks.


Adding a tablespoon or two of Isopropyl Alchohol to the Glue Mix is far superior to Dish Detergent. If you have a small Spray Bottle, fill it with straight undiluted Isopropyl & give the Ballast/Dirt a spritz with that, just before applying the Glue Mix - you'll be amazed at the results - the Glue just wicks into the Ground cover like nothing you've seen before.

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Postby gfadvance » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:27 pm

Peter,

its great little layout you have developing here - just love its simplicity and the shapes .... curved track, curves on baseboard and the variety you have manged to build into the landscape.

It will make a great display piece as well as a layout
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Postby PeterH » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:29 am

Imagineering wrote:... Isopropyl Alchohol ... spritz with that, just before applying the Glue Mix.


Thanks, I'll try that. I was using acrylic flow release to make the wet water to spray on first, but it tended to come out in blobs and disturb the powder beneath.
Peter

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Postby PeterH » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:07 am

Added dirt and a couple of sizes of small WS 'stones':
Image
It was fun, and looks convincing I think because of the unifying 'dirt' texture and colour. But it all seemed to take a life of its own and went off in directions I did not want, ending up like US country & western scenery. My ground looks like gunite (sprayed-on dry concrete), and I could not see how to get from there to the NZ bush I wanted.

Bush is all ambiguous, just a jumble of shapes, and you can not tell what vegatative bit belongs to which. There is ground down there somewhere, but you can hardly get your foot down to it, let alone see it.

So I tried this to get an ambiguous surface to plant my trees in. Roughen surface with pliers:
Image

Paint black, put on blobs of PVA, rain down bits of sisal dyed black:
Image

Screen off the rest. Lots of hairspray. Rain down bits of brown sisal, crushed dead leaf, WS grey ballast, two sorts of pale green ground foam:
Image

It looks promising, though there is a bit much green foam, and two layers might be good. I would prefer not to use hairspray, but it goes on as fine dots, each of which holds a few particles of foam, giving a nice open look. Whereas when I hand-applied glue on my Huia dairy layout it went on in blobs, giving unpleasant blobs of foam.

I finished by spraying with wet water & blobbing on dilute wet-water glue to lock it all together. Does anyone have a better way to lock it than this ?
Peter

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Postby Korschtal » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:57 am

Nothing useful to add, but it's encouraging to see your baseboard making method is like the one I'm tentatively working on at the moment, especially the way you made the landscape drop below track level... many thanks for sharing.
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Postby Adrian » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:15 pm

G'day Peter

You wrote:
1 Is there a kind of foam that is best for frocks ?


I have tried a number of different types and found the foam that is used in upholstery suits my needs best.
Expensive if you buy it new but can be found in cushions on the roadside during hard rubbish collections.
Can be cut to size/shape with a pair of scissors, a sharp knife or just have bits pulled off with your fingers.
Cover the 'rock' with 'no more gaps' or similar flexible glue and roll the rock in dirt.
Result ..... an instant rock.
Idea stolen from Mark Fry who used it on one of his layouts many years ago.

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Postby scott b » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:24 pm

The ground coverage I liked best was when I had pictures beside my work space of exactly what I wanted and tried my best to mimic the photos. As you stated there is to much ground foam which looks like ground foam. You may find the method of gluing down old style carpet underlay or as a few guys have tried hanging basket liner then pulling it up leaves a scrub type of underbrush then adding more layers makes a convincing base as it appears to grow rather than pile.
I do like the rocks they look really good with the trackwork.
Scott B

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Postby DCRfan » Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:22 pm

PeterH wrote:Added dirt and a couple of sizes of small WS 'stones':
It was fun, and looks convincing I think because of the unifying 'dirt' texture and colour. But it all seemed to take a life of its own and went off in directions I did not want, ending up like US country & western scenery. My ground looks like gunite (sprayed-on dry concrete), and I could not see how to get from there to the NZ bush I wanted........



Peter,

The dirt is just the first layer so don't worry if it doesn't look right as the majority will be covered with vegetation. The dirt only shows through in odd patches. I must admit I generally don't even and the soil layer now except where I know I want bare soil. I just paint the whole area matt black whch then just looks like deep shadow on the onn place it is visible.

A suggestion, go into to the bush and grab a few handfuls of dead leaf litter which you then crush and sprinkle on as your next texture layer. For variety collect from several areas and keep them separate until you lay onto the layout.
Paul
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Postby PeterH » Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:49 pm

Thanks for those suggestions.

I'd like to use hanging basket liner, but the sort available here is made from coarse brown coconut fiber, and does not look like the green grassy stuff available overseas. I will try carpet underlay and bush litter.
Peter

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Postby Imagineering » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:23 am

PeterH wrote:Thanks for those suggestions.

I'd like to use hanging basket liner, but the sort available here is made from coarse brown coconut fiber, and does not look like the green grassy stuff available overseas. I will try carpet underlay and bush litter.


Have a look in the 'Condiments' Section of your local Supermarket.
I've used; Oregano, Marjorum, Sage, Basil and Parsley to good effect. (Smells nice too).
The Parsley goes from green to brown after a Month or two so don't dispair that it looks too green at the start.
I drink a lot of South African RooiBos tea, (Red Bush), which, when dried is very usefull as Leaf Litter.

Murray.
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Postby SOUTHPASS » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:12 am

"Earl Gray" goes down OK too. :D
Then open the tea bags out to make covers over machinery etc.
.....WARNING....

Contains images that anoraks may find disturbing.

1:24 scale 16.5mm gauge.

Yes I know it's all old and rusty, but I just model things as I see them......

Have a good one....John B.


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