Honey I've shrunk the RS&W

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Honey I've shrunk the RS&W

Postby Oztrainz » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:10 pm

Hi all
I found one of these -
Image
At 340mm by 220mm by 130mm, its close to what Carl Arendt proposed here:
http://www.carendt.us/scrapbook/page80/index.html#2

When unwrapped
Image
It gives a "floor area of about 340mm square
An old lump of Triang track hotglued to the floor so that the SupeH can run up and down without fouling the back wall and we have
Image
The front edge of the Triang sleepers is 50mm from the back box wall.

Add a hole in the back wall behind the yet-to-be-built racks and some judiciously placed alligator clips gives:
Image

A few bits of foamcore and a styrene rear wall gives us a cheap set of pallet racks that suit the pallets that came with the 3-speed forkie
Image
The styrene sheet for the rear rack wall is set so that when the pallet is pushed in through the hole in the rear wall and bumps up against the back of the racks, the pallet sits on SuperH so that both can move without fouling the back of the box.
Image
Experience with the RS&W has shown that if you are parallel to and closer than 35mm to a "wall", you stand a good chance of becoming trapped against it, so some "No go" zones have been marked in.
We're gnow ready for the forkie :D :D :D
Image
Build time so far about 4 hours....
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Postby foswaldy13 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:26 pm

Cool. Looks like another fun project.
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Postby AndyA » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:07 pm

Love it. And here's me working on something with almost twice as much track on it. :) I'm going to take a sketchbook to Split and see if I can do it with two straights and a little pallet pusher on strings.

Great work :)

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Postby Oztrainz » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:30 pm

:twisted: Time for some moves :D :D :D
First pick up the pallet and cones
Image
Back up and swing left until you run out of room
Image
Then forward and hard right toward the right wing wall
Image
Then back hard left all the way to the left wall
Image
Then forward and right to the front
Image
Then back left again as far as you can go
Image
Then forward right again
Image
Agnother back left to the right front corner and we're ready to shoot for the rack
Image
Forwards and right again - sidewall got in the way :(
Image
Bcak up again....
Image
and agnother shuffle - FINALLY SUCCESS
Image
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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:27 am

Dear John,

How many "punters" are going to get trapped in the mental roadblock,

"whaddaya mean I have to pull a 360-degree rotation turn just to move 6" to the left :?: :?: :?: " :twisted:
Happy Modelling,
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Postby Oztrainz » Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:15 am

Hi Prof and all,
:twisted: If it was intuitive anyone could have done it and there would be dozens of'em out there...

Gnow to think up snappy name for a layout built in a John Bull safety boot Boot box from Down Under that reads upside down when sitting there awaiting revelation of its internals - an ulta-miniature Gn15 warehouse layout with operating forkies....

or do I keep the the "Randim" name idea going by using the Randim Selektor -
Image
for example:
1 & 4 = bay 1 = bottom left
2 & 5 = bay 2 = top left
3 & 6 = bay 3 = bottom right
If nominated bay is already taken when stacking
0r
nominated bay is empty when loading out = Spare = Top Right

This gives me some name possibilities-
John Bull Boots (maybe I gneed a Union Jack in there somwhere as well?)
Randim Boot(not a shoe or boot in sight anywhere as load - :idea: maybe I gneed some shoebox printies in different colors as pallet loads?)
Randim Bull
Bull Warehouse (not a bovine in sight)
Randim JB
Mini Randim
Bootbox Randim
3-speed Boot
Forked Boot
and so far I haven't got a Gn in there anywhere...
Hmm... More thinking required, but any naming assistance will be appreciated
Last edited by Oztrainz on Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Dallas_M » Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:45 am

Gnational Bull Shippers? :lol: :roll: 8)
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Postby shortliner » Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:30 pm

Loader Bull (pronounced as in Loada Bull gnaturally!) :lol:

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Postby Oztrainz » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:22 pm

John Garaty
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Postby Steve Bennett » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:58 pm

Oztrainz wrote:OH NO - I've been sprung :!: :!: :shock:
http://carendt.com/scrapbook/page89/index.html


:lol: :lol: :lol:
Are you surprised :wink:

Good scrapbook this month, I really like the Squarefoot based layout aswell.
As for the New Zealand lot, they are just showing off :lol:
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Postby Gerry Bullock » Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:33 pm

Steve Bennett wrote:
Good scrapbook this month, I really like the Squarefoot based layout aswell.
As for the New Zealand lot, they are just showing off :lol:


The claim made for NZ may just be a tad premature as a show last month in the UK could well have beaten the 12 Micro/Small layouts under one roof. :wink: :lol: :lol:
Checks are in progress to verify the UK total.
So little time, so many ideas!!!!! GerryB.
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Postby Blackcloud Railways » Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:27 pm

Gerry Bullock wrote:
Steve Bennett wrote:
Good scrapbook this month, I really like the Squarefoot based layout aswell.
As for the New Zealand lot, they are just showing off :lol:


The claim made for NZ may just be a tad premature as a show last month in the UK could well have beaten the 12 Micro/Small layouts under one roof. :wink: :lol: :lol:
Checks are in progress to verify the UK total.


I've currently got 10 micro layouts in various scales at home. I also have eight modules, four in OO scale and four in On30, some of which are capable of independent operation (when they have fiddleyards connected) so they too could be classed as micro layouts. :P

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Postby Oztrainz » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:58 pm

Hi all,
following a comment made by a visiting friend who reckoned I had more room for the forkie with the bootbox than the original Randim Stackum and Wrackem (at 600mm by 450mm overall). I got the tape measure out and measured from the edge of the front edges of the vertical runners on the pallet racks to the front edge of both layouts

And the results are:
Randim Stackum and Wrackem - 233mm
Bootbox - 230mm

I was surprised that the "swing limiting" dimensions were as close as they were between the two. Given that the forklift is 200mm itself from the front of the tines to the back of the counterweight, the 3mm difference almost became the showstopper and the only way I got away with it here was to significantly cutback the sides of the pallet racks. The depth of the smaller pallets used here is almost the same as the larger ones used on the RS&W, so there is no significant difference in the depth of the racking actually under the pallets.

I still gneed to come up with a better name than "Bootbox" for this "layout". Dallas' suggestion of "Gnational Bull Shippers" is the front-runner at present.

So far the best idea I've had for "prettification" is to just paper the inside of the box with some plain-printed industrial/corrugated iron textures glued to the back and side walls. Remember here that every 1/2mm counts with a layout that is this tight on space. Given that I've only spent 4 hours on this already, I'm looking for quick ways to be able to finish it off well inside another 4 hours. Maybe some styrene racks to replace the foamcore ones and???
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Postby Steve Bennett » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:28 pm

A question John :roll: , why do you turn the forklift through 360 degrees?
I may be lazy :lol: but it would seem logical to me, to reverse away from the train, change angle, then drive over to the rack to deposit the load. Maybe it will cut down on the fun of driving the forkie, or am I missing something else :?:
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Postby Prof Klyzlr » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:21 pm

Dear Steve,

Thing to remember : The rear of a forklift swings <out> on curves

Bearing in mind that there are fences guarding the front and sides of the forklift area, IIRC John has aready identified that there is a "danger area" along each side, and in the front corners (20mm parallel to the fences?)

In short, if you are starting from a position too close to an obstacle,
such as the fences, and your first move is to turn/back <into> the corner,

the geometry of the forklift turn system is such that you simply cannot "change direction" without the tail being locked by the fences.
(you also won't actually gain too much "angular offset" in that first move,
virtually wasting the move...)

Therefore, counter-intuitive as it is,
it is actually better to make you first move a back <away> from the side fence, to gain some elbow (or tail swing) room.

This logically puts your fork on an angle <away> from the palletracks, not <towards> it.

At this point you have 2 hoices,
1 - either continue the "doe-si-doe" moves,
and execute a 360-degree turn in 7-or-so shuffles

or

2 - having gained some elbow room, try to swing back towards the pallet rack,
(IE reverse your "attack sequence")
while not "backing yourself into a corner" again...

Clear as mud? :wink:

That's what will make it so "fun" at shows... :evil: :twisted:
Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

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Postby Oztrainz » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:29 pm

Hi Steve and all,
Ahh yes - but I'm even lazier :shock: :wink:
Yes you can do the shuffle but only for the spots in the rack that are closest to the centre. Here's what you have to do to make the aluminium scrap bale disappear from its spot in the rack-

Starting point is gnow here, with the bale on the tines
Image

First move back hard left until you run out of room
Image

Second move Forward to the far corner - Gnow you can see why the cab on the SuperH is built like a brick outhouse
Image

Third move back and swing parallel to the no-go zone
(Remember- Experience with the RS&W has shown that if you are parallel to and closer than 35mm to a "wall", you stand a good chance of becoming trapped against it, so some "No go" zones have been marked in. )
Image

Fourth move - Gnow for the easy move forward and plonk the pallet onto SuperH's deck
Image

Last move - back up a little
Image

And SuperH is gone....
Image

to deliver its load to here - all 200mm or 8" away
Image

It takes 11 shuffles to do the swing without turning - the same as if you pull the 360 degree turn - but with the 360 degree moves, you can crib some extra room when you can get your forks and the load "out in space" beyond the boot box boundaries :wink:
Last edited by Oztrainz on Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Steve Bennett » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:38 pm

:idea: Think I got that. Probably a good thing if I stick to running on rails, much less complicated for my little mind :lol:
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Postby elcamo » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:46 am

i have heard of "operation" oriented layouts but WOW! :D

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Postby Oztrainz » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:03 am

Hi all
Time flies however it is long overdue to report that there has been some significant progress with this bootbox "layout" since the last report waaay back in 2009. The bootbox was dusted off and given some internal detailing prior to a visit by Carl Arendt's former SFER #4 on 31st December 2011.

This would have taken the total build time for this layout to less than 6 hours. (given that the forkies already been fitted with driver figures, the SuperH pallet mover and the "Randim Selektor" load indicator had already been built for the Randim Stackum & Wrackem)

Photos of the visit and the final detailing are those posted by Prof Klyzlr at the bottom of page 2 in the "Roaming wagon Square Foot Estate Railway" thread at http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=7987&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25

The Bootbox now has a name - "Storage Space Limited"
After all there are only just 4 spots to put "stuff". It can't get much more "Limited" than that. :twisted:

"Storage Space Limited" also journeyed to Melbourne in March this year for its only public exhibition (so far) at the Southern Forests Narrow Gauge Meet.

I suppose if "Stacky" the electric loco and the the 2 flatcars originally planned for the Randim Stackum and Wrackem warehouse ever get built, then the SuperH palletmover shown in the photos might find itself seconded to this layout on a more permanent basis. Given that "Storage Space Limited" was built around it, SuperH "just" fits - anything bigger sure won't :lol:

"Storage Space Linited" now slumbers atop a cupboard awaiting its next call to show how little railroading can be done in a small space in large scale and yet still be operationally challenging when you "Swap Cargoes - Not Cars - (Carl's wording not mine).

Here ends the saga of Carl's bootbox idea and my execution of his idea as "STORAGE SPACE LIMITED".
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Postby rue_d_etropal » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:01 pm

got me thinking. I have one of the big RC forklifts(1/6th scale) and wonder if I might try something similar using an APA box with lid folded down in front. 8)
Not too sure if turning circle big enough.
One point I did not notice before, is I thought it bad practice to move truck with load raised. Would be a bigger challenge to always having load lowered before moving off. Know it sound a bit too Health Safety, but the course I did show what could happen.
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Postby Oztrainz » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:59 pm

Hi Simon,
several of our members who drive 1:1 scale forkies pointed this out in the RS&W thread. Yes Storage Space Limited would still work, but it would probably mean a few more shuffles to complete each move.

I'm not so sure about 1/6 scale - That would require some really precison driving to accuately spot a load on a palletmover/flatcar running on 16.5mm gauge tracks. If you go up to 32mm or 45mm gauge tracks then the stability of the load on the palletmover becomes much less of an issue, but the issue of how much room you need to swing such a large "beast" still remains. I suggest that you get some paper out, mark in the APA dimensions and have a play :wink:

For the 3-speed nominally 1/20 scale forkies I have, the critical dimensions that you must have are:
1 - the length of the forkie plus about 30mm (230mm), and
2 - be about 30 to 35mm clear of a "hard boundary" like a box side for you to have enough room to start the swing. (red No-go areas on the floor in the photos above.

The APA box is quoted by IKEA as having dimensions of:
Length: 70 cm
Depth: 36 cm
Height: 29 cm

Measured from the front of the pallet racks to the fromt boundary:
the floor area for the Randim Stackum & Wrackem is 60cm by 23cm
the floor area for Storage Space Limited is 34cm by 22cm (but remember that cutaway in the side of the pallet racks to get that extra 1cm that you need)
So the APA should give anyone more than enough room for a Gn15 version :wink:

I used the plastic pallets that came with the forklift for Storage Space Limited. These pallets are 60mm by 60 mm square, These just fit on the 60mm by 80mm deck of my super-sized version of the Hawe (the SuperH palletmover) Steve Bennett's Hawe version has deck dimensions of 75mm by 40mm.

The dimensions of the SuperH deck were decided by the 1/16 scale Europallets I bought for the RS&W at 75mm by 50mm wide. 5mm each side was my allowance for satisfactorily landing these pallets onto SuperH's deck. I opted for the larger scale pallets so that I had a "decent-sized" load when I'm using the larger Tamiya forklift on the RS&W. Plus they also make the smaller forkies look like they are working closer to their "rated" capacity

If I'd ordered 1/22.5 scale pallets and loads, then the dimensions of these Europallets pallets would have been 54mm by 36mm - These would fit straight onto the deck of a "standard" Hawe deck of 75mm by 40mm with room to spare. You might have to shorten you forkie's forks if you go this way.

If any of the above helps agnother Gnatterboxer to have a go at something similar, then I will be glad to offer any assistance I can from afar,
John Garaty
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Postby Willow Creek Traction » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:49 am

Until seeing these projects RC forklifts were an unknown. Neat as can be.
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

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Postby rue_d_etropal » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:16 pm

I will have to do some measuring. I would not try it with 16.6mm gauge, that was difficult enough in 1/12th scale, and i ended up making something more like those builders sacks which could be hooked on forks.
I would use 45mm gauge, I have a motorised chassis for the railway, just had not come up with an idea until I saw this thread again.
The track would be at back of box so at least 15cm of box plus the lid, which gives a depth nearly 60cm.
I will have to get the truck out to see how much fine control it has, its a lot more difficult to drive than the real thing.
I have plenty of spare lids so could cheat and use 2 lids :roll:
Simon Dawson
(Simon D.),
Narrow gauge Francophile interested in 1m, 60cm,50cm , 40cm and smaller gauges . Build in scales from 1/6th to 1/24th. Also 1/32nd and 1/35th using 16.5mm track to represent 50cm and 60cm gauges.
http://www.rue-d-etropal.com


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